Would any one like to help me in developing a Game Engine? (Paid work.)
Howdy yall. I am wanting to develop a new game engine with BlitzMax and Flow3D. I have to admit though I am not as good as a coder. As I used to be when I was younger. I am mainly a 3D model artist with a little coding background. But it has been many years sense I have touched code. Though I am very Familiar with it and can understand it when I see it. And I can somewhat code in Blitzmax because it is Similar to blitz3D. Which was what I started my game Assault Knights on.
Anyway back on point. What I am looking for is someone to help me code a new engine for blitzmax. Update flow3D to Ogre 1.10. And integrate the terrain system into it. and add many other features as well. I also want the engine to be very close to how Neo Axis works. If not exactly how it works. I know it sounds like a pipe dream. But I have been working on my game with Neo Axis for about 9 years. It is just a hobby now. And as I can't wrap my head around C# to code with it. I would like to remake it in BlitzMax And flow3D. But I would like to make a new game engine that is alot like Neo Axis to design the game with it. And I am more then sure I could code in it too with blitz max.
As for paid work. I am in not way rich but I could offer between 50 to 100 dollars a month until we get the engine running up enough that I could take over coding the little stuff myself. Also if we decide to sell the engine I would only take 20% of the profits. As I would be helping create demos and supplying the models and stuff for it. And doing level design.
Also the reason why I am so adamant about using ogre is because I have all my game built in Neo Axis. and that uses ogre.
Anyway if anyone is interested in this. Please me know. And we will talk. Either privately or on here. Does not matter. :)
Hey AKNightHawk, this is actually an interesting project. With Blitzmax as just a language framework and mostly favored by users to build a custom engine on, be it 2D or 3D, it is an inevitable thing as you really want to cut the repetitive process and that is what game engines are for.
I do have some experiences in Ogre3D, particularly with 1.7.x which is arguably more stable and tons of plugins and 1.9 which you might know was the first introduction of full mobile support and newer shader stuff.
You can also check out Hardcoal's GameMaker 2D and 3D game engine, see if this interest you, it's more like a blueprint/node interface like UE, less programming, here is the link: http://blitzcoder.org/forum/topic.php?id=36
I am somehow interested in this, but there might be others here who has also some ideas or input. Btw, would you really not consider getting into a more Blitz3D type 3D renderers like OpenB3D? I see you're interested particularly on 1.10 terrain system, which can be technically replicated on other GLSL renderers, depending on shader profiles used.
Well personally I loved Blitz3D when I first started working on my game. I started it in Blitz3D. But the problem I am facing now. Is that I am too deep into Ogre that I could not go back even if I wanted to. I have over 7 gigs of assets for my game. That I would have to convert. And it would be years before I could make headway and have anything closely resimbling what I have with Neo Axis. I believe Neo Axis might use 1.7.x now. Or 1.9. I am fine with either to he honest. If 1.7 is much more stable then I would be more then open to it. I am just interested really in the engine.
Also I have most of the source code for Neo Axis. That I could supply to whom ever wants to help. That could probably be redone for Blitzmax to help make the editors. I have all the source to the editors, terrain, Materals I think. And almost everything else. Guns, Dynamic objects, Playercharacter. Game. ect. I have it all. And could help a person rewrite what is there in Blitzmax. For the engine.
What I would love to do is combine both editors though. Make it a single editor. With tabs that can jump back and forth between the Resource Editor and map editor. Along with a game test button similar to unity to test out your stuff on the fly.
I also have all the .cg_hlsl files as well. From Neo Axis to put into the engine and make stuff work simular to it too. Like I was trying to do in the other topic. Though mind you I know this would be a huge undertaking. Probably many years of work. And If some one is willing to jump on board. I will stick with them Though it all. I never given up on my game. And when I work on something I stick with it until the end. I also spent over 10,000 dollars on Neo Axis and my game. So I am not afraid to spend money on something that I like. Even if it is a hobby. I just want something though that I can actually code for. Instead of having to rely heavily on some one else to code for me. Though starting out that will be exactly what I will be doing when the engine is first being Developed. But once we are past the editor part and implementing the general stuff. I know I will be able to create new stuff for the engine. And also while it is being coded I plan on brushing up on BlitzMax.
I also think within 2 to 3 years. With help we could have something as good as Neo Axis. If not better.
wow, you are really into Ogre huh? not gonna blame you, it is an impressive renderer after all and as might others consider it as a game engine as well (add MoC, RakNet, OiS, OpenAL sound). I see you also have spent years time and money on this so it does seem you are really this dedicated type of guy.
I'll be keeping in touch with you (and you also got my email) in case you're going to consider counting me in on this, perhaps discuss some details, Ogre related stuff and what you have done so far. I will be checking out and downloading the game to get more info and some ideas as well. Btw, you can always post some new stuff or updates here and don't worry about spamming, as long as it is related to Blitz or in the right category like General Discussion, it's not going to be flagged as spam and are always welcome! cheers
Well actually you was the one I wanted for this project lol. Sorry if I did not make that clear hehe. But if others want to help they are welcome to as well. But I can only pay you lol. Also here is the link to my main website. With the game fully downloadable. The moddb download is a little bit older. And not as up to date as the one on my site.
I mainly post videos and stuff on moddb. My website is where you can get the full game. But be warned it is a huge download around 4 gig. But I put it in .part files so to make it easier to download. Here is the link to the download and patches.
Also there is a much smaller Lite version with only a small amount of maps. http://assaultknights.biz/aklite/
Anyone is welcome to download my game. It is completely free. source code and all.
Sounds good! Thanks. lol I see, well it could be just perfect timing as I was actually back doing some Ogre3D stuff a few months ago. As for Ogre versions, yes I always try to stick with the stable 1.7, but also looking into 1.8 and 1.9. I have tried the SDK, but never looked into 1.10 that much because it seems that they try to complicate things now, not sure if this will change and hoping it will in the long run.
Ok great, if you are good with 1.7.x then I think this will be a nice choice for the Flow3D upgrade. For the game, I will be downloading the aklite version. Btw, have you checked out Flow3D editor? if this does not fit with what you have in mind then it might be good to start again with basics so you can get a better handle on this part.
Yep I did look at the flow editor. It is actually not too bad. If not a little buggy. But it could be a good foundation to atleast look at to see how things was made. But I don't seem to see the source code for it. Do you know where it is? I would love to see how the developer got it to load things. I actually think that editor would be a good starting point if the source is somewhere. It could be converted to act more like Neo Axis.
As for 1.7 that will be just fine. To do the flow3D upgrade. Only thing I was interested in with 1.10 really was the terrain system. But I am sure we could find something else for terrain. I did find a terrain editor that uses ogre as well. It is actually nice. Here is a link to it. It uses ogre. I have been looking into it's materals for terrain. It can use up to 9 different terrain layers. For coloring. Has a colormap setting that covers the entire terrain. Normal maps. And can do a lightmap that covers the entire terrain too. It is actually much more powerful then Neo Axis's terrain settings. Atleast where the materals are concerned. And it was actually simple to understand the cg file.
It is actually open source too. And free. Might be worth looking into. Atleast for the materal settings.
But either way I guess the first step would be to update flow. And go from there. :)
Oh I was wrong about Artifexterra having the source. But it does have some source for some addons. My mistake.
Awesome! I see, actually I'm familiar with and got to check out ArtifexTerra before. It is a good terrain system that goes well with 1.7 with animated wind grass and paged geometry, at least with the latest version afaik.
Btw, what versions of Visual Studio do you have? It seems Flow3D uses VS2008 for the Ogre DLLs that comes with the package. In any case I have posted a toolbox and resource link of 2008 express editions (with SP1) that I found somewhere. http://blitzcoder.org/forum/topic.php?id=94 This will be handy for Ogre SDK, engine or plugins compilation and updates. :-)
I have VS 2010 express. But I have no problem downloading 2008 and installing it. I used to use it with Neo Axis to look at the code. Then we updated it to 2010. So no worries there. Btw did ya get my E-mail? I sent ya one earlier to see if it worked. Hehe. Hope it did. Should be from assaultknights at hotmail dot com. I also got Notepad++. I use it all the time to look at code too. I use it to just check code out cause VS tends to take a wile to load.
Awesome but does artifexTerra have source? Or will we have to find our own terrain system? I really like the materals from it. It is powerful actually. And much better then Neo Axis. I would just like to make sure that we can visually edit the materals in the editor for maps.
I also got a bunch of pdfs from humble bundle earlier this week.One of which is blitzmax for absolute beginners.pdf I am going to use it to freshen up on BlitzMax. I already am through 50 pages. So soon as I finish it I should have somewhat most of my programming ability back. It will just take practice after that.
Btw what do you think about calling the engine Dark Realm Game Studio?
Ok great. I see, I'll have to check your message, be right back on that one. I think using MaxGui will be good enough though and more straightforward. It does have most of the widgets for the NeoAxis like editor. As for the name, it should be fine , but perhaps having 2 or 3 options to choose from and make it more simple and easy to recall?
Yes, the ArtifexTerra editor source is not available, only the framework. If an integrated terrain editor is a must have then we might just use and adapt the shaders from it with a standard terrain along with paged geometry or try to figure out and edit those image maps in realtime. Btw, the flow3d editor source is under C++ directory and it seems to be a C/C++ vs solution.
Awesome, I'm sure it won't be that hard to catch up with blitzmax as there lots of example to learn from that is included as well.
Awesome. I am also currently writing a Design Document for the editor. I should have it done in hopefully two weeks if I don't get lazy lol. If will speak of the features from Neo Axis. That will like to add. Plus some of my own. That I could never get into the engine. It will talk about the Resource Editor first. Then will move on to the map editor. As for terrain. I am fine with what ever we can find as long as it is a good terrain system. Paged Geometry and lodded terrain is definately what I want to see.
I also have a whole wish list of features for terrain I would like to do with this editor. But can talk about that later. Also editor features as well. I will have the design doc done asap. I am getting excited about this for sure. I can see this in my head. And I think it is going to be one of the best things ever made in BlitzMax hehe.
Oh ok. That will be good. I did not know about that one. (Max GUI) And also flowED that is awesome. I will definately give it a look.That was why I did not see it. I was looking through the flow3D source lol.
I look forward to seeing what ya come up with. Beginning new projects is fun! :D Can't wait to see the start of the editor.
Sounds great and please do take your time. :-) Looking forward to it and yes, I will also have a check with the possible features, but of course the upgrade to 1.7 and editor will be the top priority.
Hey bro! Just want to let ya know I am still working on that design doc. I got the .mesh editor done and I am almost done with the material part. Then will be starting on the .type editor. and physics. After I finish the material part I will send ya a copy so you can tell me what ya think. It has pics and everything and I hope ya will like it. Also can you open .RTF files? Laterz bro!
Hey NightHawk. Ok sounds great! Yes, no problem with RTF files. Btw, Physics Newtown is already part of Flow3D's wrapper and there's also CEGUI was well. The sample demo uses Blitzmax sound, but this can be updated to use 3D Sound still through BlitzMax or adding it as Ogre feature/plugins.
Sweet. Yes I am almost done with the first two parts of the Design Doc. I was thinking about calling the Editor itself. Dark Realm Editor. Or DRED for short. I am also half way through the BlitzMax guide. I will probably finish it in two days. But will still take a bit to memorize everything. 3D sound would be great. We will really need that for sure. :D I will have what I am working on with the design doc sent today to ya to look at. It is mainly tells how Neo Axis works. But our editor does not have to work completely like Neo Axis. I am starting with the Resource Editor and will work my way up to the map editor features. You could actually take this document and learn Neo Axis with it lol. I got in so much detail. And also added pics. I should be able to mail you the doc in probably a few hours.
Ah great that's awesome, thanks. I will be checking this out and have a good read asap. Yes, it would be nice to have a different take on some areas of the editor. Btw, did you get a chance to look into and play around with FlowED? What do you think? Ok be right back with my feedback and looking forward to the second part.
Flow Ed is good. I did check it out. It would take a little work to make it like Neo Axis. But not so much prob that it could not be turned into something like it :D If you used the source code to turn it into the editor. I would have a little bit of a problem coding. Cause it has been years sense I coded in C++. But that doesn't mean I could not relearn. But really as long as the .type files and stuff is coded in BlitzMax. I really would not have any problems with the editor itself being done completely in C++. Because it is much more powerful in alot of ways. Just as long as the entities are coded in BlitzMax. I see no problem with coding the editor in C++. I honestly just want the entity system and type system coded in Blitz.I also got a updated version of the Design Doc. I wrote a crapload more hehe. You want it? or just want to wait till I finish the doc competely?
Ok great. So far so good and I do see most features that are a must have and some details we can add down the road, more feedback on my email reply for this first part. Yes, it will still be BlitzMax+MaxGUI method for the editor as it is much easier and supported, just getting some feedback from you re: FlowEd and perhaps doing it in C++ would be the last option, just in case.
You can just update the rtf document as you add more details and sections, perhaps also convert it to pdf to reduce the download size.
Overall it's a good start so keep them coming. :-)
Oh wow! That is very nice bro! :D
Yeah I got some more stuff in the design doc already. When I finish it. I will convert it to a PDF. It is just easier right now to be able to write in it.I am competely finished now with the material part I was writeing. and I am going to start on the .type editor section :D
One thing I love seeing even if it is only legs. Is Mechs hehe. This is a great start! I am happy ya got this up and going. I should have the .type part done in a few days. Then I will resend ya a new version. I also need to find a .rft to pdf converter lol. Did the pics show up in the RTF file?
Btw do you want me to post on Twitter about the engine along with the pic? or should we keep it to ourselves for a wile until got something really good for the people to look at?
Thanks, yes as I mentioned MaxGUI is very supported so it seems we might be needing the whole widget class/functions and perhaps fine tune it with event handling and other widgets through external win api/dll calls. Actually, it seems the first major task here is getting the upgrade to 1.7.x. We can get that started perhaps while you are working on and getting the design doc for the editor completed.
That's awesome, glad you got something here to get you more inspired! As for the twitter stuff, either way it's all good, but I do have to agree on that part as it will be better to start posting or spreading it when there's a more established version and get some feedback.
Yes upgrading Flow3D will def be what needs to be done first. After that we can focus on the editor. Wile I am Writing the design doc. If ya can get it upgraded by the 3rd of next month I will give ya the first 100 dollars. And give you 50 to 100 a month every month starting next month. I will also E-mail you about paypal when I am ready to pay.
i wonder if you can post images of your concept.. and sort of stuff like that mr night.. :)
Gimme a couple days Hardcoal and I will send ya the link to the design document. When I finish the .type system. I am close to being finished with that part of the doc. Then you will be able to see the concept of it. :) And how the editor will work. Warning though it will have a crapload of reading.
I am mainly basing it off Neo Axis so it will pretty much work just like it. Or very close to it. With some improvements. But mainly want to make it an all in one editor. the Resource Editor and Map Editor one single editor. To jump back and forth to. It will be called the Dark Realm Editor. Or DRED for short.
Btw I really like your little visual editor for your 2D game engine. Do you think you could build something like that for DRED when we get farther along? To help people create classes and stuff? And Entity types?
Sure.. Man Ill wait..
About My Editor. its 3D.. but more for 2D Games and its not usable atm, but im working on it
In the future I may listen to what you desire and maybe play along, atm I have my own stuff to face.
Hey Nighthawk, thanks and sent you an email about scheduling and stuff. It's quite lengthy with all the details about the wrapper, SDK and plugins so I hope you have a good read with it. Btw, sorry for the typo as I made a reference on March 3rd (which should be April 3rd) so that was clearly noted.
Yes HC is a solid blitzmax user, creating his GameMaker engine so I'm sure you can also get help from him.
As promised HC here is the design doc. Please note though that the doc is very large. I have 2 formats. PDF which is about 150 meg and RTF which is around 70. Enjoy the read bro. There is a crapload of stuff to read in it. :)
Also please note the doc is not done. There is a crapload more to write about the editor. I am basically drawing off the documents from Neo Axis. For the document. Adding my own twist to it. And writing it out better. Making it more understandable. The awesome thing is when it is done and we get the editor working good. I will be able to change out pics and stuff and we will have documentation on how the editor will work. lol.
Just to let yall know I got the design doc updated. And thanks to Ron the .pdf is only around 4 meg. Here is the link. http://assaultknights.biz/NightHawk/Downloads/Files/Books/DRGS%20Design%20Doc.pdf
It is updated with the .physics editor information. I will be working on the Particle Editor next.
Howdy bro. Just checking in. Hope you seen where I posted your money on the site. Sent the 100. I also made a New Itch.io page for Assault Knights too. Here is the link! https://aknighthawk.itch.io/assault-knights-reign-of-steel
Anyway hope to hear from ya soon. Also it might be tomorrow before I post the new design doc. It is pretty long. And I have not had much time this week to work on it. But I will def have it ready tomorrow! 4/5/2018. Laterz bro!
Thanks NightHawk! yes just got it and with the new design doc earlier. It is great that you got the game posted now on Itch.io. still working on the custom sdk and should be able to give you the first set of updates in a couple of weeks. Be right back with the latest feedback. cheers.
For a quick update, I did some conversion with one of the mech models and created a simple material. Editing the path from the xml version detects and loads the skeleton properly. This is a preview and confirmation from Ogre Meshy (1.7)
Nice so the meshes will load up in Ogre 1.7? That is great to hear. Looks like we can use the the models right out of the box then pretty much? Did you have any problems loading it?
Yes, it's a good thing that ogre format spans or support on multiple versions of Ogre and not for each version along with the default xml version if you want to upgrade or downgrade. Based on this format, it seems like NeoAxis is based around 1.7 - 1.8 and grew from there.
Excluding the material file, it's pretty much loading static models directly. The only difference I found so far is it only needs to remove the path which I think is just only implemented by NeoAxis.
Animation also works out of the box.
Sweet! That is great to hear indeed. I just sent ya a E-mail bro. With the finished Design doc. Just got the whole thing done. I am not going to rehash what I said in the E-mail. But if hardcoal wants to read it here it is for him too!
That is great to hear that we will be able to use the meshes. We will probably have to make some kind of auto remover for the path with DRED. I believe your right that it is only in Neo Axis. Now that I got the First part done of the Design doc. I can focus on my favorate part. The map editor.
Also work on getting to know BlitzMax better too. Then I can focus on helping you write code. After the Editor gets built. The fun part will be setting up the .type system. And prob the materal system and physics system too.
Ok got it and sounds good, I will be checking the updated doc asap.
Agreed, no worries and we will definitely have something for the path removal, perhaps a script or program (BlitzMax? ) should be good for the fix.
Yes, it seems we got this one down now and another quick update here with an actual test load on Ogre SDK 1.7.4 using one of the examples.
That's awesome and let me know if you ran into some BlitzMax questions or issues and feel free post it here or a preferred category.
That looks awesome bro! Well done! It is going to be great to be able to use our own engine. I kinda wish I did this in the beginning. Instead of going with NA. Though NA isn't at fault. Either way I am getting excited to see this come to fruition. The editor itself I can picture it in my head. It is gonna look a little like Neo but pretty much our own style. Hopefully with a dark GUI kind of like the newer versions of 3Ds max maybe?
Thinking of something like this for the RE and Map editor.
Something in a dark grey like that. Would be awesome for the GUI system.
Cool. maybe we can join forces in the future and you could implement some of you stuff on my editor, when my editor will be worthy to be released .. Along with you working on your own.. off course
Or we could combine them and make the editor not only for 3D games but 2D as well? Just something to think about. :)
My editor is not only 3D already.. its targeted for both.. but it uses 3D Object mainly.. Well.. Lets give it some time and will see..
First I need to make an operational Editor.
Sure thing KnightHawk Yes, the 3DSMax layout looks good and a very familiar interface. I can see something similar that we can implement for the editor design ui.
More updates coming this week..
Just want to let ya know I am still working on the Map Editor document. It is taking a little longer then expected. (Alot of information to put down.) But hopefully I will have the first part of it ready by tomorrow. :)
I got the 2nd part for the map editor done. The first chapter. Here it is for ya if ya want to read it hardcoal. http://assaultknights.biz/NightHawk/Downloads/Files/Books/DRGS%20Design%20Doc%20Map%20Editor.pdf
Hope you enjoy it.
So what i see in the pic is your editor?
and you only work on documentations now?
anyway.. i took a look and from what i seen it looks great..
I just dont understand.. how do you program in it?
and also what did you use to program it with?
when can we see a demo..?
i wish the gui im using was more elaborate but it aint.. so many things you did i just cant, or its harder to do.. or immitate .. but i do what i can
No that isn't my editor. That is the Neo Axis game engine. The pics above is what I would like our editor to look kind of like. The documentation is a design document of what I want our editor to be like. RonTek will be designing the editor. These documents are the basics of what I want to editor to act like. We have to get the foundation down first. Before we start creating the editor. There is no editor yet. This is just the design stage that we are speaking about.
oh i see! Still Great work! :) Im gonna check neo axis..
Im already learning from you documentations, So Thanks.
planning ahead is the smart approch.. I coudlnt do that because I had to invent it all.. I still Do.
Generally i would like an Editor to allow the plan to be a part of its Gui.. like remarks.. but you dont hav such things yet
oh i see! Still Great work! :) Im gonna check neo axis..
Im already learning from you documentations, So Thanks.
planning ahead is the smart approch.. I coudlnt do that because I had to invent it all.. I still Do.
Generally i would like an Editor to allow the plan to be a part of its Gui.. like remarks.. but you dont hav such things yet
if i had the right investors , i would change the world of programming.. maybe it may still happen one day, I need to be more social.. :)
If you want to here. I got the most up to date version of Neo Axis. This is 3.5 pro http://assaultknights.biz/neo-axis/ Neo Axis uses C# to program with. You will have access to about 90% of the source code and everything. It is better then the free version that is up on the site. :)
This week's update is more on the flow3d wrapper side and how the upgrade is coming along. Of course we have to go with VS2008 since this works best for both BlitzMax and Flow/Ogre3D. I'm halfway done with the base ogre functionalities and still checking over other components and portability stuff. I should be able to give more details by next week.
In terms of demos and with the current progress, I think the base flow3d upgrade should be good to go within next month as scheduled. I should also be able to start posting some updated examples for testing, at least from the base features, which is mostly more than half of that was provided on the original package.
ha good one! ..or maybe just word play.. either way it's cool.
Its one thing to plan the External part of an Editor.. Its another thing to handle to internal stuff.. I wish you guys good luck
Awesome. It seems to be coming along really well from the sounds of it. :D I have no problem installing VS2008. I used to use it for a while. Working with Neo. Then we moved to 2010. I will reinstall it soon. Well writing the docs. I found in the first design doc. I missed an entire chapter. About the Resource Editor itself. So I am adding that now. As the new Chapter 1. I have that half way done. And will send an update soon. Prob tomorrow. Then will have the update to the map editor part by hopefully Wednesday. The heightmap terrain system. And how it works.
@hardcoal: Yep it is good to have a foundation down. And sense this editor we are building is going to be alot like Neo Axis I am just useing the docs for the design doc. Sense we will be making the engine based off it. Once RonTek is done with upgrading flow3D we will begin work on the Engine. And you will begin seeing it come together. Just gonna take time. Hoping by june/july we might have something that can be showed off. :D After flow3D is upgraded the true work on the engine will begin. And you will see the beginning of the editors come together.
A) So in which language the user will program with your engine? B) what new things are you going to present in your Editor?
The programming lang will be blitz max. As I find BM easier for me to code with instead of C# (Hince why I am on these forums.) As for what new things I am going to present will be probably one of the first full game engines created in Blitz max that uses Ogre. I also plan on making alot of things for the engine that Neo Axis does not have. More/different types of materal files. Road tool. Better culling of objects. For large maps. (Something Neo Axis has major trouble with.) I also plan on making other editors for the engine. Not just the ones that is already in the engine. Maybe a 3D modeling editor. If it can be done. Also DRED is going to have both editors rolled into one. The Resource and Map Editor. and use tabs to jump between the two. Also blitz max will make it easier to write .type files. We will not be outright copying Neo Axis. But it will function alot like it.
I know if seems right now. I am all talk more then anything. But trust me. When I say I am going to do something. I focus on it with everything in me. I have been working on Assault Knights sense 2006. and have not given up on it yet. I will more then likely move the entire game to this engine as well. After we get it working like we want it to. I am prepared to spend 1000's of dollars on this engine too. To RonTek for helping me code it. The main thing is just waiting for the upgrades to flow3D. It will take a wile. But after that and after he begins on the engine side itself. I will be jumping in and doing alot of code as well. Once he gets the engine foundation down.
can u share with me ogre engine plugin.. for blitzmax.. it sounds interesting .. maybe it is the right engine for me as well.. i knew it long time ago...
also which gui is better for working with ?
Hey bro. Got the update for the Map editor done. Finished Chapter 2. Will have chapter 3 up by next Wednesday.
Thanks NightHawk, just got the latest docs!
Yes, actually we are moving forward with Ogre 1.7.4 to take advantage of the last 1.7.x version with the additional fixes. You can also pretty much use 1.6 meshes (Mesh Serializer 1.40) with 1.7 (Serializer 1.41) and it just throws upgrade warnings. It seems Ogre mesh format has this backwards compatibility thing across versions and on top of that there is also a MeshUpgrader tool (a misnomer which technically it also downgrades).
HC, In regard to GUI, the wrapper and engine is using CEGUI. It is pretty much widely used and part of Ogre SDK, at least on the last flow3d version (Ogre 1.6), but we are working on that to include it with the 1.7 update. Updated wrappers and package will be available as soon as it is ready and yes for now you can check out the current Flow3D download.
1.7.4? even betta hehe. That is great to hear. Seeing all this come to fruition is really driving me. I have not been this excited about something sense I began working with Neo Axis. I have sooo many ideas running through my brain that I am going to have to write it all down lol. Either way I will have the next Design doc update hopefully by Wednesday if not then, then for sure by next friday. The next one I have to write all myself. Cause it is a special technique that only I use in Neo Axis to make maps. And I definatly want to be able to do it in this engine as well.
Heya NightHawk! Yes, this will be better and really glad you got your drive and motivation way up! Btw, I'm more than halfway done now with the base ogre and flow3d upgrade so we can perhaps see some demos in a couple of weeks. Awesome! looking forward to your next ideas and the next design doc update. cheers
Hey bro! Sorry it is going to take me till tomorrow for the update. Been a busy week so I will have to finish the next part of the Map Editor Design doc tomorrow.
I am really looking forward to seeing your update when you post it. Feel free to use any assets you want from my game if you want to make it look better. Also if you need assets let me know. I can build you a map or buildings if you want. trees etc. Also the assets from my game is open to use too. Whichever you need.
Also gonna need your info again to send this month's payment.
Heya NightHawk! no worries Thanks! just sent you an email with the details. Ok sure thing and that would be awesome! Yes, I was thinking of updating the samples eventually with some of the game content as well since we are moving forward with the DRGS engine now. I'm almost done with the basic core functionality upgrade, so I will start working and checking on some of the demos soon. cheers.
Alrighty bro! Just got the payment sent. :D Looking forward to your update and seeing something new!
Awesome thanks! Yes, I know its been a silent one this week with the updates since its more on the wrapper side, but hey! it's almost ready and good to go. I'm now checking out the demos and will be testing them out with the changes and new version. Great! I should be able to post some new stuff this coming week.
@HardCoal got the updated Map Editor Design doc for ya if ya want it. Here is the link. http://assaultknights.biz/NightHawk/Downloads/Files/Books/DRGS%20Design%20Doc%20Map%20Editor.pdf
This just shows the basics of making a map. Next version will be Advanced map making.
@RonTek Awesome let me know how they work out! This is getting exciting! I have been studying BlitzMax code and also the code for Neo Axis and Cry engine 5.5.
Yes, now.. signs of life with the updated wrapper..
That's great and keep it up! Be right back for more and with the actual updated demos for testing.
..and just to make it official, I made a quick replacement config dialog placeholder banner
Sweet! That looks awesome bro! Man this is making me excited! I am dieing to see more! Woot!
Heya NightHawk, Awesome! thanks, glad you liked that one and yes now we are getting this thing really started!
Btw, another screenshot update while I do some cleanup and prepare to upload the initial demo. This is now a combine MaxGUI and SoftShadows example. I will also try to update a new set of demos or examples eventually based on the new wrapper or features that we will be adding that is not available from the previous one.
With this, I did a complete resource replacement from the game asset except for the plane mesh there. Nothing really special with the textures or materials as I just did some quick experimenting with the ambient map (not baked AO as it seems) aside from diffuse map which is required by the soft shadow command and shader setup. The previous example tries to load diffuse on both slots btw.
Be right back with the demo..
Basic 2D demo now up and ready for testing! This is the most compact setup with just 3 folders and 9 files including the executable. The Ogre DLLs are directly downloaded from the 1.7.4 SDK so you can cross check this to verify the upgrade.
Nice! Wow that looks awesome buddy! Man I can't believe we are already showing progress! This is wonderful. I am exstatic with excitement. The first pic already looks almost like Neo Axis some what. The Type editor. hehe. I will continue to conversation through E-mail but this looks great bro! Your doing a wonderful job indeed! I will have more to say through E-mail! Keep up the awesome work! :D
Heya NightHawk! Thanks, glad you like that one and here now is the actual demo for testing.
I'm also preparing the blitzmax wrapper files with a few changes that works with the current demos since we are trying to preserve the commands, at least before we verify what works then make the update with the new version and features.
Ok sure thing and now moving to Newton Physics!
Awesome. I just tested it. About Newton? Are you going to upgrade that too? Use the newest version or the old version from flow? Just wondering really. Man this is great. I checked out the CG files too. Just wondering what all that looks like. Doesn't seem to hard to understand. I have some normal map files for the mesh as well. I wonder how normal maps would look. You feel like grabbing one and putting it into the .materal file to see how it looks? If you want? And just post a pic of it when ya got time? Just curious about it really. :)
Either way awesome job. I love where this is going! Thanks for the awesome updates buddy!
Sure thing! and to give you also a quick breakdown, one of the nice features with Flow3D is it has all the essential shaders already made available, so here is the normal map material with basic specular lighting applied. This was loaded in OgreMeshTool 1.3.1 which I think supports material and shaders from Ogre versions 1.6, 1.7 and I think even with 1.4. I actually recommend and use this as a good viewer for material editing and testing while we are still working our way from building the editor.
Here is a dwarf model that I just converted and configured using the same shaders as above from Flow3D. You will notice that it supports both static and skinned meshes as this was loaded and played in OgreMeshTool above as well.
Here is another model which is the MonkeyMaze Robo armor model taken from FlowEditor. The next screenshot I tried using a bumpy metal normal map texture to test it further with lighting.
..and finally you can see here all shaders in action with a scene in oFusion OSM scene format from FlowEditor example.
The only drawback that I noticed so far while working with Flow3D is the lack of support with advanced shadows (like pssm and csm). Technically, we don't have any problem with that since the Ogre 1.7.x SDK already provides full support of these shaders from the examples, as shown below or we can use other techniques as well that were made available out there, which is just a matter of time and a bit of effort. In case you are wondering why this was not added in Flow3D, perhaps it could be just it was too early and due to performance with the average hardware back then. So moving forward, this is definitely on our to do list to add and test it with the wrapper.
Yes, the CG options is really a nice addition as they support both OpenGL and DirectX(9) renderers. Apparently, this is already considered an outdated tech even though it is still being used today. We can actually mix and match between CG and HLSL or CG and GLSL shader/materials with Ogre.. and as you might have noticed NeoAxis only uses HLSL(DX9).
As for Newton, the first thing to do is to make it work with the version that was included then upgrade it eventually, I'll keep you posted on this next! :-)
Wow it looks very nice indeed. As for GLSL files we can probably look over the ones from Neo Axis. It does have some really good cg_hlsl files we could prob use for our own engine. Or rewrite or what ever needs to be done. Though I can understand cg_hlsl never tried coding it though. Shouldn't be too hard though. The pics look outstanding. And the normalmap file you used looks better then even Neo Axis. I am sure with a little tweaking and looking online we can find allot of shaders that could be used for our engine.
Either way the pics are awesome indeed! Awesome job buddy!
I am looking forward to the Newton updates too. Can't wait to see more! Keep up the great work bro!
Thanks! Yes, I think NeoAxis shaders should also work, but the engine side code might need more looking into or digging through. There could be some redistribution issues as well (if not as game end product) so better confirm their usage or licensing. In any case, it seems we should be better off using our own as much as possible down the road. Yes, here's a quick guide at least in getting started with Ogre's CG shaders
Btw, we are definitely looking into updating the terrain system and with paged geometry as there seems to be lacking most terrain functionalities with flow3d implementation.
Yeah the Terrain system in our engine def needs to run good. I actually do not like Neo Axis's terrain. Because it is so slow. Neo Axis has a really bad terrain system actually. It can barly handle using 1024 x 1024 height maps. One thing about our terrain system for this engine I def want to make sure is, that it can handle all terrain sizes and make sure that the terrain runs really smooth and fast. Paged Geometry, LOD, and Streaming assets and terrain is a must. The newer version of the CryEngine terrain is so dang fast, it is actually scary. I can load up a 16384 x 16384 terrain on it and it runs super smooth. That is what I hope we will be able to do with our engine. Though as long as we can load atleast up to 4096 x 4096 terrains that will make me happy.
There will be alot of features we will def have to think about in the future. From paged Geometry, Lod, Streaming Assets, Culling, Deffered Rendering, One of the hugest drawbacks with Neo is that it loads everything. Each and every time you load it up. It will load up every single asset in the data directory. I can't stand it really. It is such a terrible way to do things. Our engine should load up what is in use only. You should not have to wait 5 to 10 min for it to load at all. Esp going to the main menu of your game. Like with Assault Knights.
Anyway I will try to have the update to the design doc up and running when by hopefully Friday. It is taking alot longer to write this tut cause I am fully writing it myself. But soon as I get it done. I will post it to ya.
Again awesome job buddy. You are doing great. Thanks so much for working so hard on this. I can't wait to see what ya got in store in the near future!
Heya NightHawk! Thanks. Yes, we will be planning some addon/features and see what and how it would fit in with the engine. Paged Geometry is definitely on the list of must haves as it does provide performance boost for large levels. I have to mention that Paged Geometry also supports Terrain Groups which I have read somewhere that there is no actual limit of how many terrains it can have and the ~9 Terrains hardware limit that is set means the number of Ogre::Terrains visible/in memory at any time. We will have to check with this further and confirm the limitations when we get a chance to work on this particular feature component soon.
As for the Newton wrapper update, everything seems to be working great, did some version compatibility changes and is now almost set. This will be ready for testing a week early (starting next week) than a month that was originally planned.
Ok great, will wait for your next design doc update! cheers.
Hey bro. Awesome on the new information. I am glad that the newton physics is going so good. We will def need that to be able to do stuff in the engine for sure. Currently right now RL stuff is happening that I have not been able to work on the Design doc. But I am going to spend all of next week working on it. It will take a bit. But I should have it updated by then. Sorry for taking so long. But will have it ready.
Anyway bro. Looking forward to the new updates soon. I am sure they are going to be great. ttyl Night Hawk.
Sure thing. It's now complete and preparing to post and upload some updated demos. Be right back
Ok np and drop me a message anytime for the latest design doc updates. cheers buddy!
How's it going NH? Btw, Robot Tank Game is now ready and updated. I have also created a worklog to easily track activity and progress. Also sent you an email a few days ago in regard to itch and new details. ttyl cheers!
Robot Tank Game Demo
hey bro. Sorry it took a while to reply. I have been having some IRL hickups. And I have not been on much. This month I am not going to be able to pay at all. I got some sudden unforseen bills on me that I had to pay. But I promise I will make it up to ya. Sorry about this bro. IRL stuff happens sometimes. Anyway bro. Your awesome and your updates are great. I already checked them out. :D If you don't want to work this month that would be totally understandable. We can begin again next month if you like?
Again I am sorry for this. And I will make it up to ya. Promise.
Hey, no worries and sorry to hear about your current situation. I do understand as this happens to all of us. As for the updates for this month of June, sure thing if that will be your decision. Yes, we can just continue and pick it up next month. Btw, I also mentioned on my previous email that the last payment for April was refunded to you by itch.io (weeks delay issues) a week ago so it will be now 2 months in a row, just for your info.
I am also looking more into Blitzmax stuff for the sound system as this will be more native and efficient compared to bundling it with DLL.
Ok great, thanks and cheers.. will keep you posted!
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